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Yan
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« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2011, 03:33:49 PM »

Thanks for the update on Abdullah Yusuf Ali's translations.  That is interesting.  I don't know enough about Islam on most of those issues, but the one about legalizing bank interest deviates from what I feel is right.
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« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2011, 03:45:25 PM »

I'm sure I'll be giving this a lot of consideration, but now I wonder which is the best translation, and also in regards to burning Abdullah Yusuf Ali's translations - 1)  Usually people who burn holy books do so in defiance and aggression, 2)  If such a translation included the Arabic text, one would be burning the actual and legitimate Qur'an.  We can easily see why translating the Qur'an at all is problematic.
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UmmOmar
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« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2011, 01:02:05 AM »


السلام عليكم و رحمة الله
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Jazak ALLAH khaira brother Abdullah for the correction and don't worry many people don't know about it and i myself found out about it recently though i've never used that copy and always use the translation by Drs. Muhsin Khan and Taqi-ud-Deen Al Hilali.

Thanks for the update on Abdullah Yusuf Ali's translations.  That is interesting.  I don't know enough about Islam on most of those issues, but the one about legalizing bank interest deviates from what I feel is right.

Islam doesn't legalize bank interest. There is something called Islamic banking which is a quite complicated topic and many people don't see the difference, though difference is big and it requires a thourough study for one to understand. In sha' ALLAH we'll try to post an appropriate post soon.

I'm sure I'll be giving this a lot of consideration, but now I wonder which is the best translation, and also in regards to burning Abdullah Yusuf Ali's translations - 1)  Usually people who burn holy books do so in defiance and aggression, 2)  If such a translation included the Arabic text, one would be burning the actual and legitimate Qur'an.  We can easily see why translating the Qur'an at all is problematic.

The copies of Qur'anic translation usually don't include the Arabic text, at least i haven't met one, even if there is it is not considered as Al Mus-haf. Anyway, what they meant in the article is that you simply stay away from that copy and that's all, it's up to you i suppose how you do it Smiley At the end our duty is to warn people bi'ithniLLAH.

And you're right it's not an easy task to translate the Qur'an and that's why the scholars study for years, studying the meanings of this or that word taking into consideration the explanations to Qur'an from various ahadith narrated from Sahabah who initially learnt it from the Prophet Muhammad himself صلى الله عليه و سلم wa ALLAHu a`lam

May ALLAH sub7anahu wa ta`ala forgive our mistakes and guidde us to what's right.
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And when My slaves ask you (O Muhammad SAW) concerning Me, then, I am indeed near (to them by My Knowledge). I respond to the invocations of the supplicant when he calls on Me (without any mediator or intercessor). So let them obey Me and believe in Me, so that they may be led aright. Qur'an (2:186)
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« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2011, 09:23:47 AM »

Thank you for mentioning alternate authors/translators, tasneem.  I am wondering how to get and use Arabic fonts for Windows 7.  I found something about this subject online, but the Arabic is in question marks -

"2-The part of the Ayah in which Allah, all praise and glory be to Him, says:

[إِنَّمَا الْمَسِيحُ عِيسَى ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ رَسُولُ اللّهِ وَكَلِمَتُهُ أَلْقَاهَا إِلَى مَرْيَمَ وَرُوحٌ مِّنْهُ]

Which means: “The Messiah ‘Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His Word, ("Be!" - and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Rûh) created by Him.” (An-Nisâ’, 4: 171)

Yusuf Ali translates as:

“Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary and a Spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His Messengers.”

He translates it as: “a Spirit proceeding from Him” makes it mean a spirit emanating from Him [proceed means: issue, emanate, emerge…]. Thus he inserted that polytheistic expression in the text and thus completely distorted its meaning."

Now that I see how that pasted, I guess I fixed it at a Microsoft site!  Anyway, I got that here - http://www.imanway.com/en/showthread.php?t=1801&page=1

What I wonder about this is references to "Christ Jesus" and "Messiah".  Is Jesus considered these things in Islam? 
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UmmOmar
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« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2011, 06:58:28 AM »

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

I'll post for you tafsir (explanation) by ibn Katheer, which is a well recognized and trusted source for tafsir.
Before starting, i'd like to mention that you'll never see in Qur'an name of `Isa (`alayhi salam) as Jesus Christ, but you will meet `Isa bnu Maryam (`Isa son of Maryam (Mary) ) or  Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), or both  Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary) etc. but i'm guessing they give Jesus as to make it easier for non-Arab readers to understand whom they are reading about etc.

Now to the explanation of the verse from ibn Katheer there's a long explanation to the first part of the ayah (verse), but i'll post for you the part you've mentioned to make it clear in sha' ALLAH:

(171. O People of the Scripture! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allah except the truth. Al-Masih `Isa, son of Maryam, was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His Word, which He bestowed on Maryam and a spirit from [created by] Him; so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not: "Three!'' Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allah is (the only) One God, hallowed be He above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is All-Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs.)

(Al-Masih `Isa, son of Maryam, was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His Word, which He bestowed on Maryam and a spirit from [created by] Him;) `Isa is only one of Allah's servants and one of His creatures. Allah said to him, `Be', and he was, and He sent him as a Messenger. `Isa was a word from Allah that He bestowed on Maryam, meaning He created him with the word `Be' that He sent with Jibril to Maryam. Jibril blew the life of `Isa into Maryam by Allah's leave, and `Isa came to existence as a result. This incident was in place of the normal conception between man and woman that results in children. This is why `Isa was a word and a Ruh (spirit) created by Allah, as he had no father to conceive him. Rather, he came to existence through the word that Allah uttered, `Be,' and he was, through the life that Allah sent with Jibril. Allah said,

[مَّا الْمَسِيحُ ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ إِلاَّ رَسُولٌ قَدْ خَلَتْ مِن قَبْلِهِ الرُّسُلُ وَأُمُّهُ صِدِّيقَةٌ كَانَا يَأْكُلاَنِ الطَّعَامَ]

(Al-Masih [`Isa], son of Maryam, was no more than a Messenger; many were the Messengers that passed away before him. His mother [Maryam] was a Siddiqah. They both ate food.) And Allah said,

[إِنَّ مَثَلَ عِيسَى عِندَ اللَّهِ كَمَثَلِ ءَادَمَ خَلَقَهُ مِن تُرَابٍ ثُمَّ قَالَ لَهُ كُن فَيَكُونُ ]

(Verily, the likeness of `Isa before Allah is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: "Be! ـ and he was.)

[وَالَّتِى أَحْصَنَتْ فَرْجَهَا فَنَفَخْنَا فِيهَا مِن رُّوحِنَا وَجَعَلْنَـهَا وَابْنَهَآ ءَايَةً لِّلْعَـلَمِينَ ]

(And she who guarded her chastity, We breathed into her (garment) and We made her and her son [`Isa] a sign for all that exits.) (21:91)

[وَمَرْيَمَ ابْنَةَ عِمْرَانَ الَّتِى أَحْصَنَتْ فَرْجَهَا]

(And Maryam, the daughter of `Imran who guarded her chastity,) and Allah said concerning the Messiah,

[إِنْ هُوَ إِلاَّ عَبْدٌ أَنْعَمْنَا عَلَيْهِ]

(He [`Isa] was not more than a servant. We granted Our favor to him.)


The Meaning of "His Word and a spirit from Him

`Abdur-Razzaq narrated that Ma`mar said that Qatadah said that the Ayah,

[وَكَلِمَتُهُ أَلْقَـهَا إِلَى مَرْيَمَ وَرُوحٌ مِّنْهُ]

(And His Word, which He bestowed on Maryam and a spirit from [created by] Him;) means, He said,

[كُنَّ]

(Be) and he was. Ibn Abi Hatim recorded that Ahmad bin Sinan Al-Wasiti said that he heard Shadh bin Yahya saying about Allah's statement,

[وَكَلِمَتُهُ أَلْقَـهَا إِلَى مَرْيَمَ وَرُوحٌ مِّنْهُ]

(and His Word, which He bestowed on Maryam and a spirit from [created by] Him;) "`Isa was not the word. Rather, `Isa came to existence because of the word.'' Al-Bukhari recorded that `Ubadah bin As-Samit said that the Prophet said,

«مَنْ شَهِدَ أَنْ لَا إِلهَ إِلَّا اللهُ، وَحْدَهُ لَا شَرِيكَ لَهُ، وَأَنَّ مُحَمَّدًا عَبْدُهُ وَرَسُولُهُ، وَأَنَّ عِيسَى عَبْدُاللهِ وَرَسُولُهُ وَكَلِمَتُهُ أَلْقَاهَا إِلى مَرْيَمَ وَرُوحٌ مِنْهُ، وَأَنَّ الْجَنَّةَ حَقٌّ، وَالنَّارَ حَقٌّ، أَدْخَلَهُ اللهُ الْجَنَّةَ عَلَى مَا كَانَ مِنَ الْعَمَل»

(If anyone testifies that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah Alone Who has no partners, and that Muhammad is His servant and Messenger, and that `Isa is Allah's servant and Messenger and His Word which He bestowed on Maryam and a spirit created by Him, and that Paradise is true and Hell is true, then Allah will admit him into Paradise with the deeds which he performed.) In another narration, the Prophet said,

«مِنْ أَبْوَابِ الْجَنَّةِ الثَّمَانِيَّةِ يَدْخُلُ مِنْ أَيِّهَا شَاء»

(...through any of the eight doors of Paradise he wishes.) Muslim also recorded it. Therefore, `Ruh from Allah', in the Ayah and the Hadith is similar to Allah's statement,

[وَسَخَّرَ لَكُمْ مَّا فِى السَّمَـوَتِ وَمَا فِى الاٌّرْضِ جَمِيعاً مِّنْهُ]

(And has subjected to you all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth; it is all from Him.) meaning, from His creation. `from Him' does not mean that it is a part of Him, as the Christians claim, may Allah's continued curses be upon them. Saying that something is from Allah, such as the spirit of Allah, the she-camel of Allah or the House of Allah, is meant to honor such items. Allah said,

[هَـذِهِ نَاقَةُ اللَّهِ]

(This is the she-camel of Allah...) and,

[وَطَهِّرْ بَيْتِىَ لِلطَّآئِفِينَ]

(and sanctify My House for those who circumambulate it.) An authentic Hadith states,

«فَأَدْخُلُ عَلَى رَبِّي فِي دَارِه»

(I will enter on my Lord in His Home) All these examples are meant to honor such items when they are attributed to Allah in this manner. Allah said,

[فَـَامِنُواْ بِاللَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ]

(so believe in Allah and His Messengers.) believe that Allah is One and Alone and that He does not have a son or wife. Know and be certain that `Isa is the servant and Messenger of Allah. Allah said after that,

[وَلاَ تَقُولُواْ ثَلَـثَةٌ]

etc.... till the end

I hope this made it clear for you in sha' ALLAH. If you have any other further questions, feel free to ask.

Ma`a salam
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And when My slaves ask you (O Muhammad SAW) concerning Me, then, I am indeed near (to them by My Knowledge). I respond to the invocations of the supplicant when he calls on Me (without any mediator or intercessor). So let them obey Me and believe in Me, so that they may be led aright. Qur'an (2:186)
Yan
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« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2011, 07:06:05 PM »

Well, it was Yusuf Ali that used the term "Christ Jesus", according to that website.  I'm surprised to see the Messiah reference as well.  It has very Christian associations, more than just an annointed prophet.  The way I've heard "Messiah" used all my life makes Jesus a savior and a god - things that I do not believe.  Who/what is Jibril?

Does anyone here use a good text editor for Arabic?  I was able to paste in Arabic, but when I had it in my text editor, it was question marks.  I'd like an Arabic text editor.
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UmmOmar
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« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2011, 12:34:24 AM »

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

You should read the information on this link, it's quite big and lengthy but it covers the major points about how the Jews and Christians deviate claiming that God has a son and who Messiah really is:

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/10683/messiah

If there are still some doubts left please let us know to provide you with more info in sha' ALLAH
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And when My slaves ask you (O Muhammad SAW) concerning Me, then, I am indeed near (to them by My Knowledge). I respond to the invocations of the supplicant when he calls on Me (without any mediator or intercessor). So let them obey Me and believe in Me, so that they may be led aright. Qur'an (2:186)
UmmOmar
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« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2011, 08:51:32 AM »

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم


Concerning your question about Jibril (Gabriel), he's the greatest of all the angels and he's the Rouh al Qudus (Holy Spirit) referred to in al Qur'an about this very topic please read more here:

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/14403/Gabriel

In short:

The greatest of all the angels is Jibreel (Gabriel), upon whom be peace, who was described in the following report:

"From ‘Abdullaah ibn Mas‘ood, who said: the Messenger of Allah (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) saw Jibreel in his true form. He had six hundred wings, each of which covered the horizon. There fell from his wings jewels, pearls and rubies, only Allah knows about them."
It was reported by Ahmad in al-Musnad, and Ibn Katheer said in al-Bidaayah 1/47 that its isnaad is jayyid.

The Messenger of Allah (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) said, describing Jibreel:

"I saw Jibreel descending from heaven, and his great size filled the space between heaven and earth." (Reported by Muslim, no. 177).



Among the angels is one whose task it was to convey the revelation from Allah to His Messengers; this is al-Rooh al-Ameen, Jibril, upon whom be peace. Allah says:

"Say: whoever is an enemy to Jibreel - for he brings down the (revelation) to your heart by Allah’s will. . . " [al-Baqarah 2:97]

"Which the trustworthy spirit has brought down, Upon your heart, that you may be (one) of the warners." [al-Shu‘araa’ 26:193-194]


and ALLAH Ta`ala knows best
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And when My slaves ask you (O Muhammad SAW) concerning Me, then, I am indeed near (to them by My Knowledge). I respond to the invocations of the supplicant when he calls on Me (without any mediator or intercessor). So let them obey Me and believe in Me, so that they may be led aright. Qur'an (2:186)
 
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